RFPs: How to get what you want

I suppress the red button recording as

soon

so now is the point where I can't say

inappropriate things okay not that I was

before it to be clear um hi everybody

happy Friday so I am thank you thank you

um I am the sales and marketing manager

at Palantir and actually just for some

context I'm a former designer as well I

I decided not to design anymore because

I liked managing things so I went into

project management at Palantir and

because I like to steadily been managing

things I became and I like sales and I

like talking to people and I I'm one of

those few people that really does

enjoyed standing up here and talking I

went more into sales and marketing so

that's where I am now and I am here to

talk about the process of how to help

clients and if you are a client how to

help you write a better RFP a little bit

about volunteer net I'm sure some of you

in this room already know about Palantir

doesn't it but just in case you don't um

we are a full-service end-to-end web

firm we do strategy design and

development support and training we are

based in Chicago but we are a remote

team about a third of us are here in

Chicago the rest of us are all over the

country and I think it's a wonderful

place to work so this talk actually came

out of a conversation I had with a

client last fall at the higher ed web

conference I was there in Hartford

Connecticut sitting across from a woman

who said I have to write an RFP and I

have no idea even how to begin can you

help me and we we get this question

occasionally and I said of course you

know she said I don't even know what to

include this is not my job to write

these things I'm not even supposed to

write for my job at all and I have to

somehow

all of the things down into a document

so that I make sure that I get what I

need from vendors when they are giving

me responses to this and it's it's

definitely tough if if you are in any

sort of web anything you know that you

you're not redoing your website every

year right it's got to have some lasting

sustainability it's gonna last you a

couple years so this writing an RFP is

not something you do that often so when

you have to write it from you

essentially have to write it from

scratch every single time so I wanted to

give this talk it's mostly geared

towards clients to help them understand

where to start and how to write an RFP

that that I as someone who reads RFPs

all the time knows is a good one and

will want to respond to it and will get

the information that I need to give you

an accurate quote and it's also I think

good for sales teams at other firms who

I see some - - to also just be involved

in that process of how to how to make it

better for all of us I think when all if

if all of us got better rfp's I think

all of us would be happier right on in

the agency side so I do think that sales

is a little bit like dating it is all

about finding the right partner you know

you're trying to impress them you're

trying to make sure that you're a good

fit on both sides and and make sure that

if you're going to be having these very

long intimate hangouts on video chat for

hours and hours at an end that this is

something you're excited about working

on and excited about doing so to

complete this analogy a little bit more

I did actually look up like what are the

stages of dating you know and I'm

surprised to say that this came from

this website like mental health dotnet

because I don't consider dating a mental

health issue but apparently so but I do

think there are a lot of similarities of

course there's that initial meeting

there's you know we're attracted to you

you know I like you I'm gonna send you

an RFP I want you to maybe work on my

website and then of course we want to

have that casual meeting you know to

if we're interested we'll talk about

your project then of course we are

assessing things do we want to be a

couple do we want to move this

relationship forward and this is where

we're learning about and choosing your

your finalists and your vendors and then

of course there's that engagement and

deciding to commit and and on the sales

side of course that's contracting so to

me it's a little bit analogous and also

this is me if I don't hear from you you

know like if I go through all the work

of writing an RFP for you and you take

many months or weeks and you don't get

back to me and I've been invested in

your potential project all this time

I've taken the energy to write you an

RFP and I'm really excited to work with

you and you don't call me back it

doesn't make me sad so you know we at

Palantir we're really invested in in

these potential projects we get very

excited about it and so yeah it's it's

said if we don't if you don't call me

back um so I want to help you so this is

my way of helping me help you with your

RFP because we want to make it just a

better experience for everybody so

before we start

my main question to everyone is do you

really need to write one our peas are

tough to write they sometimes have to go

through really antiquated procurement

systems there's legal reasons for that

it's a little different for every

organization we do some higher ed work

we do some government work and in those

two areas in particular there's a lot of

potential procurement hoops that we have

to jump through so in those cases you

can't really get out of writing an RFP

sometimes I've had a client come to me

and say I really want to work with you

but legally on binds bound to find two

other quotes right that happens as well

there are just those parameters they

have to write one but if you don't have

to write one that's even better go out

find referrals from your peers find out

who you want to work with and have

conversations with them try to avoid the

RFP process all

together I think it's a much happier

process however if you have to do it

don't be a bad date I want you to be a

good date for me and and me for you like

I want us to go out and have dinner and

have a lovely time so here are all the

things that we find at Palantir to be

annoying about the RFP process I'm gonna

step away from the podium a little bit

so I can read this a little bit better

but um these are things that we find

often when we get our fees we want

copies on a flash drive we want it you

know even worse if you ask us to submit

copies on DVD and CD this actually does

still happen some of our Macintosh is do

not even have CD drives anymore so this

becomes a problem sometimes we're asked

for physical paper copies sometimes

there are specific parameters around

those physical paper copies they have to

be double-sided they have to be in color

sometimes they want one copy in color

and five copies in black and white I

don't know why these are just the rules

that are given to us sometimes we'll get

an Excel spreadsheet with specific boxes

we have to fill in sometimes it has to

be then all of this paperwork signed by

a notary or have a wet signature and

again since we're a remote team this can

be tough someone has to drive up to

Evanston to get the big boss to sign up

sometimes this one is a very expensive

one for us you'll send us the contract

in advance during the proposal stage and

say could you please get this contract

and make sure that it meets your

expectations which means now we have to

spend money on a lawyer to read it and

make sure that if we want to work with

you we look at your contract upfront and

we see are there any red flags and we

may not even win the work and we've had

our lawyer do all that work for you

sometimes actually I would say not

sometimes very often we won't even get

goals outlined for the

sometimes we do have to upload to a

database after we've done all that work

we've done all this we have to then

upload all of our sections there are

amendments to this RFP to a very

specific procurement system that you

have sometimes although I will say

there's a double-edged sword to that one

sometimes it makes it easier because

then when we get responses back if they

share those responses with us we

actually get a full grid of sort of our

score if you will so so that one for me

is kind of camp it can be good there we

have instances where we have an RFP that

is many many many pages long and it

really gives us no information and I

have a great example of that coming up

[Music]

so here's another thing that we love

it's phrases and terms that mean nothing

so I'm sure we've all heard state of the

art we don't know what that means to you

I also love when they say offer your

best solutions well you have a budget

right so I can offer you my best

solution depending on what your your

budget is or depending on your timeline

so give me more information don't just

tell me you want to stay to the art

website with your best solution other

phrases that mean nothing

what's cutting edge that's a great one

modern fresh that means different things

to different people back when I was a

designer and I had an artist actually

come to me and they wanted some work

done and this artist I knew to be

extraordinarily conservative in his work

it was absolutely beautiful it was white

it was it was glass I mean absolutely

gorgeous to look at but but what

everything was white there was no color

to it and

he said he wanted something really

flashy really modern all of these types

of words so I gave him something that I

thought fit that description and he was

horrified and he came back to me and he

said no no no no I really want something

that just has like a photograph of my

glass with my name on it that's it okay

and so what I realized I was I was young

and I should have known I I didn't know

better at the time but what I should

have realized was well his version of

what's modern and flashy is not what my

version of matter you know so that's

really what the difference was was just

really being able to dig into those

those adjectives that are tricky and

understand really what they're trying to

get at another one that can be

extraordinarily expensive is

integrations as one of our colleagues at

Palantir can likes to say if you put the

word integrations and a proposal with no

explanation that could be $30,000 or

$300,000 depending on what it is you

have to give us details on that one um

some other interesting legalese we've

encountered business interests in

Northern Ireland this is one of my

favorites so um you know again this is a

holder verse from something very

specific

it has nothing really to do with web

design and development at all but this

is a blanket procurement document that

was sent to us that's for all industries

that we received and it says you know we

can't have any specific business with

Northern Ireland another one that's

likely not relevant again same document

and it's a holdover that we hear there

many investments

that's from slavery or sleep other

insurance policies during the slavery

era all of us in the internet world know

that the internet wasn't around during

this memory which is a you know so this

is just one of those holdover things

that is in procurement ducts that we

have to that we encounter that's likely

not relevant to us um I'm just I'm

giving some just examples of some of the

things we come across so I'm gonna share

with you my worst date ever from a

procurement perspective this is just all

procurement gone really really really

wrong so why was it so bad it was 27

pages long the scope itself was half a

page it fits on a slide you will see it

shortly it had no information about what

their goals are business needs were so

but they did let us ask a lot of

questions which was great all the

vendors got to ask a lot a lot of

questions so we could get some

clarification about what they needed um

there were six attachments plus other

agenda and execution pages that had to

be signed wet signatures we needed an

original photocopy and a flash drive and

it had to be physically mailed so this

was the scope sort of basically they

just needed an implementation of the

comprehensive web strategy had to be

accessible they needed an ia they wanted

to us to define some metrics for them

without giving us any goals and we were

going to be doing interviews with their

stakeholders not a lot to go on

right not of a lot but they gave us 26

pages on how to submit it so many ways

to submit scientist copy this one is

executed put it in a sealed package

clearly write mark each package with

your name the RFP number etcetera

pet around flash drives fun things even

more these were the contents of the

proposal all of the attachments that we

had to find I'd like you to focus down

towards the bottom on attachment F the

Iran divestment divestment act

certification piece which said that we

were not contracting with the country of

Iran so we had to sign this form our

boss had to sign this and say that's

correct we're not doing any work with

Iran right now just examples so we were

allowed to ask questions as I mentioned

earlier right but there was so little

clarity of course not a lot of scope

given to us that 214 questions were

asked pages and pages and pages of

questions everything from what CMS would

you like which was the last question

to tell us about your integrations what

is your budget what's your schedule and

so many details beyond are you migrating

what state is your content in what does

your team makeup look like who are we

working with lots and lots and because

even though we had gotten all these

questions asked or sort of answered what

ended up happening was this 19 firms

were asked to bid on this and they got a

range from $35,000 to two hundred and

thirty five thousand dollars this RFP by

the way they have still not chosen a

vendor this was about five or six months

ago they're still reviewing all of it so

they made their job harder they only

gave us they gave us so little

information base

about to so many firms that now they

don't have an apples-to-apples

comparison that they can make from one

firm to the next they've they've got

doesn't mean that you know God love you

if you can do this entire thing for

$35,000 without knowing what the

parameters are and I think the firm on

the other end is is hedging their bets

that they're gonna find a lot of

surprises you know this so they padded

their budget to be able to make sure

that if anything comes up that wasn't

accounted for they're not gonna lose

their shirts so this is what happens

when RFPs are not specific enough it's

it's it's tough for everybody it's tough

for the people submitting it it's tough

for the firms trying to write it and

understand what they're bidding on so

this is why I'm having this talk so we

can try to make it a nicer process okay

um so let's build your app your RT here

so we want to make it simple we want you

to outline exactly what you're looking

for

tell us your likes tell us your dislikes

tell us what you can't do I'll give you

a second to absorb

every one done so um here's a list this

is a pretty comprehensive list of what

to include I'm gonna go through 14 items

there's gonna be a summary at the end so

don't feel like you have to you know

write it all down or whatever you can

take a total crash with the last page

and it's gonna be a summary of all the

things that we think you should include

in order to make a really really good

RFP be specific about your goals please

we want traffic to increase on this page

because why why do you want traffic

there we want to make sure that even if

all you want for your website is just a

general upgrade you know our site's

outdated and we can't use it it's just

not working for us and you really just

need a general upgrade surely there's a

reason you're frustrated with the site

as it is now though right like it's

either not working on the back end the

people who are trying to edit are

frustrated with the interface maybe its

end of life whatever CMS that you're on

you're not getting support the person

who was in charge of it left for another

job and there's no one to support that

there's all sorts of reasons why even if

if the basic premise of this project

that you're trying to embark on is just

our site's old and we need it to be new

there's still a lot of information that

you can give us about what's not working

for you so we want to avoid generalities

like we want more traffic

well why look what do you want traffic

for what what do you want them to do

when they get there you know we want

links to social media well of course who

doesn't but what do you want your social

media to do for you you know is there do

you want to share everything do you want

it just in the footer do you want it on

every single blog post you know what

what are the outcomes that you're trying

to tie back to why you're asking for the

things you're asking for

on the flipside be very specific about

your constraints is someone is there a

stakeholders going on sabbatical or

you've got vacations that we have to

work around are there key dates that we

have to hit because you know you're a

higher ed site you want to hit a certain

admission cycle or your healthcare site

and you know you've got whatever

whatever that milestone is you're trying

to hit

are there any external forces that are

at work here are there any brand and

identity guidelines that we absolutely

have to follow you know is theirs

whether it's colors typography what are

those parameters under which we're

working we want to know those as well

please tell us your budget seriously for

real because if you don't if you don't

say your budget then what happens is

that bar chart that you saw on the other

page where you get thirty five thousand

to two hundred and thirty five thousand

that's very often gonna happen if you

can't give me a specific number at least

give me a range somewhere between 100

is and if you don't give me a number

here's what I'm gonna do to you right

back yeah if you say to me I don't have

a number in mind I'll be like well are

you thinking I'm gonna throw out a

number at you don't you say are you

thinking it's like a hundred thousand do

you think it's somewhere around a

hundred and fifty nine times out of ten

I get a reaction oh no we didn't think

of it being you know that much you know

well because your RFP like what you're

asking for it sounds like you really

need three hundred kids oh well we only

have a hundred okay okay so so you

really did have a number in mind even if

you didn't know like if you felt well we

don't know how much this cost usually

what they say is we know when they say

we don't know what our number is it

usually translates into we don't know

the cost of this because we haven't done

this in four years so we don't know what

we're up against you know we don't know

what's out there so I am gonna if I'm

told I'm not that you're not giving me a

budget I'm gonna throw a number out at

you that what I think it is roughly I'm

going to gauge your reaction some people

stick to their guns and they say legally

we're not allowed to tell you so you

know there's not much I can

do with that from there but all I can do

is give you my best estimate of what

it's gonna be but boy we love budgets

right because it just helps us craft

what we can do for you when that number

I mean I can give you all of the things

that a Porsche has if you want to drive

the Porsche I can give you all the bells

and whistles of a Porsche but if you've

got the budget for the Kia I need to

know that so I can construct you the

proper car

tell us your specific exclusions this

happens a lot when you encounter

websites where there are other URLs kind

of tucked away or related to that

website and then we have to go back and

ask does this also encompass this URL is

this also encompass this one how about

this one over here so very be very

specific about this is for this domain

name only so that we know that we're not

worried about that offshoot site we want

to know you know are you expecting us to

create your content for you sometimes we

get these very these are fees that are a

little big about we want to upgrade our

content they'll say that upgrade our

content and I'll say well who's doing

that like is that that is that an

internal wish is that something you're

saying out loud because you're saying

well this is aspirational for us

internally as a team we want new

photography new videos new we want to

write new things but it's debate in the

RFP so are you asking us to take on that

responsibility we can I just need to

know that you know so be very specific

about who's in charge of creating all

the content and what kind of content

between photography video and test um

who's in charge of your hosting it's not

gonna be found here we don't do that so

give us their information because we can

help you at least we can guide you in

certain directions but that's not that's

not what we do details about

integrations please please please please

so our colleague Luke I asked him for a

good example of what's what the bad

example of something we see

their RFP and what how would you like to

have seen it written and he said bad is

once someone said integrate with LDAP

and he doesn't know what to do with that

again is it $30,000 or is it 300 so he

said a good example is what you see up

there very very detailed what work this

is what we're trying to do this is what

we're hoping to gain from that

integration and all of the goals tied

around that so when you're writing

integrations of which these days there

are increasingly more and more please be

very specific about what those

integrations are doing for you and what

you're trying to get out of it lists

your internal resources um I don't know

how the other agencies work but at

Palantir we sometimes work very

collaboratively with our clients

sometimes there are more people on the

client side of of a project than on our

side we've had that happen where we are

actually five Palantir developers and

ten on the client side and we're helping

them build the site along with us are

they interested in doing that great let

us know so we can sort of build that

into the process sometimes your team the

clients team doesn't have time to do

that you know they've got their other

responsibilities they have other things

they have to do maybe this project is

really only 20% of their time let us

know how much time they can devote to

working with us they they are going to

have a product owner on their side right

that someone that's got to be able to

work with us a certain number of

meetings per week to make sure the

project is going well so tell us all

about how the internal resources work

and that's including the list of all

your content editors as well are we are

we building this site for a hundred

people a thousand people who are going

to be touching it at any given time just

let's not number seven outline the

status of your content has it been

audited is anything being archived do

you have any market research you've done

in advance that we need to know about as

far as your content who's migrating it

how are they migrating it and do you

have an asset

that we can look at in advance all of

this stuff again

helps us nail down how to make it better

for you send it to the right people

number eight in my old more naive days I

would actually look at this website

called the RFP database I don't know if

any of you are familiar with it but I

would go there occasionally and try to

look for RFPs that fit what I was

looking for and I did this exactly once

and I submitted an RFP to an

organization in New York and she was

very happy to get it and you know we put

in hours and hours and hours of work and

after about a month I you know hadn't

heard from her and I said hey how's it

going and she said well we got over a

hundred submissions nice she said yeah

we're still working through them it took

them months to look through all of those

RFPs to read them all so in my many

years since of just doing this I would

say no more than five pick your top five

firms ask for referrals from other peers

that you have and try to avoid posting

on those RFP sites sometimes again

legally many organizations do have to

post their RFPs on their websites they

don't necessarily put out an open call

but if it's there on their website and

someone randomly finds it they're gonna

get a random submission that that

happens but no more than five is ideal

and also from the agency side right it

gives us better odds so number nine give

us time to respond at least ten days

please business days could be greater

not ten case with the weekends is week

preferably three to four weeks you know

we're busy people too we want to do it

thoughtfully so if you give us time to

be able to ask all those questions and

put something together and get a proper

estimate that's pretty simple I think um

number ten allow for Q&A

so thankfully most of the RFPs that I

see do this they they give a timeline

and they say

okay the RFP submission is today

you have until 10 days from now to ask

questions and then they give you you

know a week to ask your questions they

put them all together and they answer

your questions and that's great this can

be done many many many ways we have done

it where it's an organized conference

call there's going to be a conference

call at this time you log in and

everyone asks their questions all at

once it's usually about an hour an hour

and a half and then you take your

answers and you go on your merry way

sometimes they ask you to submit in

advance

and then they will send a full email

list of all the questions that all the

vendors asked which is my favorite

because then I can refer back to it and

if if you know on a conference call if

it's the sound in the audio is not so

good at it's tougher to hear my least

favorite is when I send questions via

email and they only stand back the

answers to my questions I want to see

what everyone else asks too because

maybe we forgot something

right like maybe there was a better

someone said it better you know so

that's my hope is that if you are on the

client and please send all the answers

from all the vendors regardless of who

asked if it's good for everybody to see

them all

[Music]

I'm sure Lesley has a few things to say

about this don't ask for spec work we

don't work for free we're all

professionals and frankly it's no good

if if we're asked to design something in

advance it's usually on the design

manage right you know no one asks us to

build anything really in advance it's

usually we want to see what your theme

looks like if you really understand our

brand working without strategy is no

good if we have not met your team if we

have not been able to dive into your

needs and wants and desires for your

audiences if we haven't even been able

to define your audiences with you it's a

guess right it's it's not going to serve

you well if you want to visit that

website and

Beck calm it's got a really good summary

that could be a two-hour talk on its own

as to why spec work is a bad idea and it

also of course goes into the topic of

contests you know like design our poster

for our festival you know which does not

necessarily apply to us right now but

there's some really good information

there about why any crowd of kind of

creative work whether partial are

completed submitted in advance without

payment is just a terrible idea so

please don't ask for it

number twelve I think I've outlined all

the painful reasons why if I have many

addendum that I have to sign an

attachment that needs to be notarized

and uploaded to databases it's just

painful and extraordinarily

time-consuming so do what you can to

streamline that paperwork for us reduce

any formatting or paperwork requirements

I mean just really keep it simple some

of the best RFPs I've ever seen are

three to four pages long which I know

sounds challenging how do how do I get

all that information in three to four

pages without making it six point tight

right but you can it's possible I've

seen it and if anyone ever wants to see

an example of one I can ask that client

who's done it well if they'd be willing

to share it and I I'd be happy to share

that with you um this one is just a nice

to have I'm gonna be I'm gonna say

number thirteen give it decisions matrix

let us know how we're gonna be judged

against the other firms are what's gonna

be weighted most heavily you know we

lost a job last year to a client that

was one of the ones that made me cry you

know that gift from the first couple

pipes I really cried over that not not

literally but I I was bummed out for

sure and we lost due to geography they

loved our RFP absolutely loved it they

said there was nothing wrong with it

your cost was great your design is great

we loved your presentation that you did

for us in person nothing at all wrong

but the other firm was twenty minutes

away

you know that happens I can't get that

broken up about it when I lose to

geography there's nothing I can do about

that but it still breaks my heart a

little bit when someone says you were

really really good they're just more

convenient you know but do let me know

if you can what is gonna be weighted how

heavily is that gonna be weighted you

know to to everything else is it is

geography that critical to you that if

you see two firms that are you know

close that that's gonna win out in the

end it's just helpful now and in this

one it is not really an item per se to

put in your RFP but just more of a

realization please realize that you're

buying a process and not a product a lot

of the time we how many of us before

you know it didn't exist really like it

wasn't a theme you know sometimes we all

figured it out we're smart we read up

you know and we all managed to figure

out how to build responsive websites and

you know the very first time a

healthcare client came to us we had

never done a healthcare site but

thankfully they were able to just look

at the related experience well ok you

haven't done healthcare but you've done

higher ed and there are some

similarities there right you've got

specific audiences you're trying to hit

they've got specific kpi's you know when

it comes to higher ed you want them to

apply right well when it comes to

healthcare you want them to sign up for

an appointment you've got multiple

editors from different divisions so from

a back-end workflow and permissions

issue there were a lot of similarities

and then of course the equivalent of

faculty in higher ed is sort of like the

doctor with the doctors in health care

right they have their agenda - well I

want my profile look like this and you

know so I I think this helps all of the

the firms in here to try to - for

clients to understand

that we don't have to necessarily have

built the exact same thing that you're

looking for before we can bring a fresh

perspective we're smart we're able and

we can be effective problem solvers for

you

and you're buying a process it's not

just an end product that you're buying

does anyone else relate to that so this

is the summary these are my top things

that I hope make a better RFP since I

see phones coming out I'll pause for

four chances to do that

and then believe it or not I know I said

this earlier and it's hard to believe

but all right I'll give you one last

chance take that photo the late comers

it is possible to actually do this all

in three to five pages long it really is

and we will thank you for it

those are our favorite RFPs three to

five pages chock-full of really useful

information we talked about them in

slack oh this is a good one I love this

RFP this one's great they give us so

much information and we know that the

client on the other end is probably

going to be getting some proposals that

are very comparable and they'll be able

to make some really good decisions there

um before I sign off the last thing I

would ask is that um even if we don't

win the work at the end we love the

feedback you know we really want to know

how we could have made it better for you

was there something we didn't do well in

our RFP was there something we could

have done better I mean again geography

I can't help but we do relish the

feedback and we do listen to it we do

try to make it better the next time we

iterate all the time um and if of course

even if we won the project we'd love to

know why you know what what did you

think was better about RFP than the

previous one we had one client tell us

that one of the reasons why we won the

RFP was actually the photo we used on

our very first slide in the in-person

presentation that we did because they

said it just meant that you understood

us like you get us so it was just that

photo that we used which wasn't from

their property it wasn't from their

organization but it was just sort of one

of those abstracts like this feels like

something that's that would resonate

with them and that was on our cover

slide and they said from the moment you

walked in and you presented your work to

us and we saw that we just said that

they just get us you know and that

that's good feedback for us to know

because you are damn straight every time

I put an RFP out there I look for

every time I'm sending another one I

want to make sure that I am grabbing

them from the cover page I don't even

need them to click over to the budget or

the schedule to see how long it's gonna

take it's are much it's gonna cost them

I want them to from the moment they open

it say oh they get us so thanks

any questions

yes visitor right or if these were

clients as a service do we write them

for our clients as a service not

directly we have been very heavily

involved in helping them craft it though

like they will write it and we will

review it and say you need to be more

specific about these things you could go

into more detail about this this is

confusing so yes from that point of view

we don't necessarily write it for them

but we have helped them help to guide

them so that they can make it better in

terms of when you were going over some

of the criteria for submission a new

response how often do you get the

feeling like

they are giving you some type of test

the path you've been Elementary School

to see if you can follow a set of

instructions like do you think that's

actually the case yes so and that's

where I feel like you just need to be

able to narrow down to whom you're

submitting right because we especially

the ones that are very procurement heavy

that have a lot of Hoops to jump through

if you miss one of those hoops you're

out you know and it's kind of like the

M&M rider right that you always hear

about that famous story was it van Halen

who was it was it being hammered no

great knows yeah no I think was gonna

brown I mean whatever color it was but

yeah it was it had nothing to do with

the M&Ms they just wanted to make sure

that whoever whatever concert venue was

paying attention was actually reading

through the whole thing so that they

followed all the specific safety

guidelines you know so sometimes I do

feel like it's a little like that we

just want to make sure you were paying

attention you've read every single thing

but we're pretty thorough thankfully so

I don't think we've missed anything I

can't remember colony in recent memory

that we lost because we didn't fill out

one form yeah yes

bill agency so it's obviously you do it

all you know it's very small my clients

are accordingly pretty small a lot of

them are nonprofits and I'm currently

embroiled in the project from hell oh

sorry

what threw me was that they can't what I

consider and even after hearing your

topics don't consider it a good RFP and

it was concise it was five or six pages

it was very clear on their goals what

they didn't like about their own site

what they wanted to achieve with their

new site it was a little leak you know

who the decision-makers were so when I

first talked to them I asked some of

those questions like who would I be

working directly with where is the

content going to come from and and I sat

down with them and you know there was

one person who was going to be my point

person was going to be you know bringing

all the savings to me and so on and it

totally self destructed from there so I

submitted a proposal they accepted it

that was great and then everything just

started to fall apart because every

single assumption or decision that was

outlined in the RFP turned out to be

open for reconsideration so and their

board like they had a big meeting of

their task force and their board this is

a non-profit and I was told later that

people were saying things like well we

need X don't websites we have X oh let's

just make this just like every other

website you've ever seen so I built

entire structures you know with views

and

like okay this is how we're going to

handle this content type and then we're

up there like oh we changed our mind

about that and we don't really want that

page to be like that so you know then I

had to write them this really long memo

outlining how they had exceeded the

scope and and also giving them some

examples of the time involved in doing

some of the things they had initially

asked for the thing that wanted me to do

because I think it just don't throw this

away okay just like right you already

spent the money in essence so and so

then eventually I was able to talk to

that one quite person and say you know

you haven't really good at our F P and

she said I said did your task force

write that collaboratively and she said

no I did so there's no internal buying

no yeah it was no and Carol buy-in and

even now even though I'm trying to work

with them to help them understand that

this is costing their money I'm happy to

do it but every time they come back to

the USA will our group met again and we

want to change this it's money

yeah and I said you know we might want

to adopt a more formal change order

system so that instead of just you know

writing the email or calling you saying

this you submit a change order I tell

you how much it's gonna cost cos maybe

that'll drive occultist they know now

that they've practically doubled the pot

right so so there there are two things

like if I make on that so a good RFP

does not necessarily equate to a good

client right right sure sure so a good

art and conversely a bad RFP could be a

great client and and maybe the bad RFP

is only bad just because again of the

antiquated procurement system like they

a lot of the times the people that we

deal with in procurement are not even

the project people were gonna end up

with in the end but they have to go

through that system for whatever reason

so so yes just a good RFP doesn't

necessarily equate into a great project

in the end it just makes it less painful

for sure but what it also hopefully does

is that it translates into a tighter

contract because if the with the art be

is that explicit these assumptions these

integrations these goals you write

that's where you write that into the

contract as much as possible so that

when the project does derail in that way

then you can go back to the contract cuz

it's hard to go back to the RFP which is

an illegal document and say but you said

you wanted all of it this specific way

you have to be able to have that

contract that is that next step but I do

think good RFPs can translate very well

into good contracts so it sounds like

maybe it's something got lost in the

statement of work phase it wasn't

outlined as specifically you know I

think I'll have to go back and look at

that our fp9

I've heard what you're talking about but

I still think it was a good RFP it just

didn't have internal find yeah so I

think my contract is adequate to

demonstrate the change in scope of the

project because I wrote this really long

memo a few weeks ago and use specific

examples to show you know here's what

your RF piece and here's what my

contract said here's how we ended up

doing it and I got no argument from them

now that doesn't necessarily mean that

they bought it back yeah yeah I'm just

very interested to see how this is all

gonna turn out I wish you luck because

that's I mean I I'm not gonna lie we've

all been there at least once I mean that

that happens it was just as surprised as

I didn't feel like yeah yeah it doesn't

necessarily translate one to one know

that that good RFP is a good client what

I thought I would by doing that

everything you've done so far silence

really absolutely connected is to

present to them that okay we're how

about we finish with what we've got here

get this done another board and then we

can work on future enhancement that's

that would be a really good approach and

I haven't specifically asked them to do

that but I think especially if they

express concern about how far beyond

their budget are they are that would be

you and everybody referred to like an

iterative process and and really kind of

what I meant that that less you guys

keep changing your minds but instead it

could be let's just get this thing

wrapped up and then we can go back and

refine case your stakeholders are still

concerned about things and honestly I

don't know why there or should have that

much hands-on you know yeah it's it's

helped in the past to get to get us on

the same side so they know that we're

both trying to keep this in budget right

yeah right totally started getting

accusations that are not activations but

implications that we were just trying to

charge them as we could and we're just

trying to meet their name did they give

teacher my that's right right and that's

yeah and that's something too about how

the contract can be written in a certain

way to make sure that everyone

understands what that minimum viable

product is you know so that it's here's

where we here's where we get to launch

we get or or whatever the goal is and

then everything else on top of that you

know is either change order or you know

that's part of agile process right when

they're making their decisions about

what they're prioritizing but that's

that's something that's ideal in an RFP

but again that's more specific to the

contracting phase to make sure that they

understands you know this is what

they're getting Ashley

about qualifying human potential clients

and it leads that come in I'm just

curious if there are cases where the

content of the speech you're

disqualified

absolutely oh so many where do I start

I'm trying to think of a recent example

we we have one master service agreement

with a large organization so different

divisions come to us often to bid on

things their procurement division has

changed things recently to make things

more complicated than it was before they

have locked us into a rate until 2019

that is not our current rate so for us

to be able to to want to bid on one of

their divisions like if they send us an

RFP we have to it has to be really good

because we know we're gonna make less

money on that job and we know that it's

going to be painful to bid on it

so just actually this week we tossed out

one that we got where the goals weren't

specific enough there wasn't enough

information and we just thought you know

what it's this one's a waste of our time

and a lot a lot of times um if our board

you know we have a certain like

dashboard that we use where we look at

all the work that's coming in and if our

board is just really full and we've

gotten a lot of you know every hand is

on deck trying to write stuff and make

sure things are going out the door there

might be something that actually is

desirable but the deadlines the next day

and we just don't have time you know we

literally just run out of time and

that's not the art piece fault that's

our fault you know we just were too busy

but sure we disqualify things all the

time if something doesn't meet our

values you know before we qualify

anything we make sure to go to the

website of whoever is asking us to build

it and if they you know if they're just

their values don't match ours we won't

bid on the weather

I have a question yeah um how do you

guys or any advice have a cure analogy

right

I like I've often found issues with our

keys especially the big procurement ones

that hurt so like cartwheels all over

the place happening to client understand

that you are building them a tool and

not a website and understand especially

when it comes to Drupal and WordPress

that like the kind I think you touched

it a little bit when you're talking

about that content hmm and who's doing

the content and who's responsible I've

always thought that to be very grey yes

in RFPs and then you've got yourself

with very unhappy clients because they

were expecting you right to deliver a

website not a tool that would make them

any website yep I we we had this problem

happened a couple years ago where we

didn't get specific enough digging into

their content strategy so when it came

from Lauren knows this one intimately

well so when we when we wrote the art P

and we then consequently wrote the

statement of work and the contract it

wasn't specific enough of who was in

charge of the content and it became a

massive problem during the actual

project there was they didn't want to do

it we didn't want to do it it for a

number of reasons and it it caused us to

make sure that moving forward we always

dig very much into detail about who's

owning what when it comes to the content

that's just something we learned about

hard way

[Music]

because generally speaking they the

client should own their content you know

that shouldn't be the web firms

responsibility unless they specifically

ask but I think you can't speak

generally on a lot of those things you

have to be very specific about that

anyone else it really can be a nice

process I think sales can be a wonderful

process when you know I mean when it

runs well I think it's great yeah how do

you how do you intend to use your fails

like NASA so believe it or not I wrote

there is a blog post on Palantir duck

net that's about three or four years old

that outlines all of this because I've

been in this process a while I used to

run my own small business before joining

commentaries to partner with Palantir

actually that's how I got assimilated

like the Borg into the organization and

so I had a lot of experience being like

trying to divide my time between doing

the work and selling the work and all of

that so I actually wrote a blog post

shortly after I joined Palantir about

how to write an RFP that I want to

respond to so a lot of this information

actually is on that blog post it's a

couple years old but how else do I

intend to use this is that so I

mentioned at the very beginning of the

talk that the impetus for this was a

conversation I had last October at the

higher ed web conference when this

potential client came up to me and said

I just don't know where to start and

that is a conference where it is

entirely I'm giving away a trade secret

here and all the agencies are now going

to sign up but that it is a conference

where it's not a lot of vendors and

there's a lot of people within higher

education who are just trying to make

their websites better they might be the

only editor in their department they

might be one of five they might be in

charge of a department they might be

sort of hamstrung they have all these

different parameters that are all very

different but they all have this this

desire to make better websites for their

prospective students current students

faculty staff alumni etc and it dawned

on me having this conversation with her

that

they could probably use this you know

again they only have to do this every

couple years and it's a daunting task

and it takes 8 to 10 to 12 months

depending on you know what they're doing

and they have to pull in all the

resources and I just thought I want to I

submitted this talk to that conference

because I want them to know it can be

easier and it can be easier for both of

us like if you can write it this way

you'll get more successful responses

like you'll be able to make better

choices and I won't want to hurt you you

know everyone wins it's very win-win so

that's I'm actually going to I take this

to some conferences where there might be

more clients rather than you know other

agency just to make their process better

for everyone all right thank you