Where is my next project coming from? Sales pipeline management for freelancers and small agencies

like everybody else we are hiring devs

and front end and back in so get me up

afterwards if you want to talk you guys

this is targeted attacked freelancers

founders leaders of smaller agencies

describe most you anybody sort of way

outside that and money you're

technically focused versus how many are

more creatives okay pretty even next

cool awesome so let's define sales

before you going here by the way sales

presentation trope number one always

quote yourself and make you sound smart

sales is finding people you can help in

offering to help them in exchange for

something you value normally that's

money just want to work for livestock

that's cool too you can get into a

really big argument about sales versus

marketing at this level when we're

talking about a freelancer or kind of a

smaller agency or one person doing both

jobs anyway really doesn't matter you

can call whatever you want

so we had sales funnel in the title so

we should probably talk about what that

is and why you should care

put sales funnel or sales pipeline into

Google click on the image just happen

you'll get about ten thousand images and

all look something like this it's some

stylized funnel somehow fifteen steps in

its time have less that's about as

simple as you can make it but the

concept is pretty simple there's this

universe of people you can help they

have business problems that can be

solved by a website our drupal website

those are needs some tiny percentage of

them will become prospects they're

people that you need they have the money

the time you know the timings right the

interest whatever you'd actually help

them and then some smaller percentage of

them will become actual customers that

are you know paying clients locally for

the long term so we're going to talk

about in the next 25 minutes or so is um

basically how we fill this funnel with

people so that as your project end

there's another there's other ones to

work on and you're not in that sort of

sine wave thing where I'm busy ability

and ability I'm gonna pay the bill fine

I pay the bills I'm do the end busy and

busy because that tends to be how it

works if you don't like to manage the

funnel properly for all the pretty

pictures your your for a practical

standpoint your sales funnels a

spreadsheet and since it's a spreadsheet

you'll be a little bit of math involved

this is an actual real sales funnel of

mine from I think last year all the

names changed obviously they all look

kind of the same you're gonna have some

categories and I'll talk about how you

set those are in a minute you got the

opportunity name the company name you

got the you know of you dollar value

you're putting on the project

you're gonna track the date you think

it'll close it'll never be right and

then you're gonna have some kind of

probability based on where it is in the

funnel and you do the math on

probability versus amount you get your

expected value for that particular

project you add all this up and you get

how much you think you're gonna make in

revenue based on the current state of

your file this is all trial and error I

mean every every months you know percent

those are going to be different based on

the market you serve in your position if

you're the world renowned expert in

Drupal sites for auto dealerships any I

know dealer calling you might jump to a

it's your market or if you're more of a

generalist you know those percentages

are generally lower because there's a

lot more competition so how do we get

that pretty spreadsheet with big numbers

at the bottom know what you have to do

to build that up over time sales trope

number two always put a founding father

when he's in the u.s. you're not from

the US try something else similar in

your country so Ben Franklin allegedly

said if you fail to plan you plan to

fail and this was actually the second

time I've seen this quote today it

really is a sales trope I'm not making

that up

um so we want to do or think of our

sales funnel first thing got to figure

out is your stages just keep it simple

you know you don't need to slice and

dice your sales funnel up to fourteen

stages I mean honestly even the big

companies that do that don't need to do

that

the fewer you know levels in your funnel

the easier it is to track the less

frustrated you get um this is probably

honestly a little overqualified for a

small company we don't think you could

probably drop a couple of these with me

verbals and leads and keep it real

simple so we start at the bottom we're

going to assume our imaginary company

wants to make half a million dollars

next year and they average about 50 K

per project so that gives us you know we

need to win ten projects next year

you always want to account for the fact

that there'll be some place where you

get up you know in a Friday afternoon

the VP Marketing says yep

this looks great send me a contract on

Monday and you try to call on Monday any

on fire and that projects dead happens

all the time so count for that and you

just sort of do the math up the funnel

to figure out what you're gonna need to

actually make half a million dollars no

this is assuming all new business

obviously if you had existing clients

you know maybe you can if you can count

on them for half of your revenue that

year or something like that

but we're kind of assuming here this is

you know you just focus on new clients

people you have no relationship with

today you're going out and trying to

pull them into the company so in this

case and honestly these numbers these

percentages I think are pretty

reasonable for kind of a generalist

Drupal company it doesn't have like the

kind of market position where people

just call them invent them to work for

them you know you need to come up with a

hundred opportunities which are

essentially people raising their hands

saying can we talk to get 10 new clients

so that's kind of a big number okay yeah

verbal in this case Harris verbal in

this case is you want the vice president

of marketing says this is awesome Samia

Samia contracts on Monday we'll go yes

yeah yeah unfortunately then you do it

on Monday he's not there anymore does it

happen I've had it happen so you kind of

play in the wind more than you need

shortlist is a proposal looks great can

come in next week you know you're in the

final three then pitch would be you send

up your Center for critical a proposal

or you know you've gone and you're you

know your slide show form and everything

you made some kind of presentation or

proposal to them prospects are people

that you've talked to you that you can

help an opportunity is anyone that said

hey can we talk so they know if you sell

hosting pretty much everybody in this

place it'll lead right everyone everyone

here knew toasting so if you're hosting

sales person this is a target-rich

environment the opportunities with the

people who have said call me next week

the prospects are the ones that you've

talked to you and they actually have

money to afford say Acquia right or

whatever if yourself properly so

obviously it gets more likely they're

gonna be a customer if they move for

your father okay so that's that's that's

this desk this the theory so the tactics

how do we actually what do you actually

do to find those hundred people to raise

their hand and say holy not a math

problem it's a mine so I think we don't

map in this presentation um so basically

what you want to think about is number

one stuff you're gonna do every single

day pretty much seven the steps are

gonna do once a week or something thirty

the things you'll do monthly for the

things you'll do quarterly - a

semi-annual one is annual I mean this is

basically a brainstorming exercise and

it's going to be different for every

agency and every freelancer depending on

your market and what you like and what

you do the stuff you're going your daily

obviously if somebody calls you or

somebody emails you it says can we talk

you're going to call the people back

every single day that's kind of how you

stay in business if you got Twitter

following or you want to Twitter

following maybe you're tweeting out you

know web design or Drupal stuff and

building up people that way they might

contact you if you're playing the RFP

game you're gonna check the RFP end

bucket essentially every single day and

plot more about that towards the end

things you might do weekly write a blog

post maybe you have some older content

which is still good so you can recycle

it and repost it if you're doing the

MailChimp newsletter thing you might

send that out every every Sunday or

whatever you know then obviously I'll go

through all these but the monthly stuff

is gonna be local meetups whatever camps

or quarterly big annual one obviously a

Drupal con

um and we could brainstorm 50 more

things to put in here as it depending on

I mean maybe if you're doing like small

bits and websites you might like be

going to the chamber commerce you know

breakfasts so that really just depends

on what you do and which me would do

business but the reality is there's no

right answer do what you like to do if

you absolutely hate writing email they

really don't do it cuz first of all the

people reading it will probably feel

through your a trade deals right through

the text and it won't be super effective

and you know if you can go to six camps

you hear your presentations and that

like leads to enough people to want to

work with you to keep good happy and and

fed that's what you focus on it's not

there's no one way to do this it's good

adder of what works for you in your

business and the reality is even if it's

your full-time job never really can't do

all that I have a look at RFP so a three

days I'm busy here yeah this could be

there Monday hope so it's really just a

matter of what works to you it's you

have to like doing it or the people

you're talking to you're gonna feel it

so qualified

yeah hundred people to raise their hand

how do you figure out which ones are

really worth investing some time than it

trying to build a relationship with

reality of opportunities are obligations

I mean if you're trying to build a

business you've got to talk to pretty

much every budget that raises their hand

and said they want to talk to you

and that actually cool come from this

book company one which is uh by Canadian

graphic designer ever slash web

developer talking about how he runs his

business if I got one-person business

that was pretty good books that do it up

here anybody ever heard of the acronym

bent as it comes to sales it's it's

basically the four things you want to

know when you're talking to a potential

customer to decide if they're a

potential customer budgets kind of

obvious you want to know if they have

money to afford what you do and you

don't have to take that literally you

don't have to like know they have fifty

thousand dollars to spend on Drupal site

you just have to believe they can afford

for a few thousand dollars our Drupal

site because they may not know how much

it cost you know having to you know

again if it's a FedEx cool you're not

worried about they got that kind of

money if it's you know a small

mom-and-pop shop they don't probably

even if they think they do

authority how are they going to buy who

can sign who can sign the PIO basically

or your contract um again you don't have

to be literal on this especially in a

bigger company the first book you're

talking to you is almost certainly not

the person that gonna sign the checks

but just make sure I understand how that

works if it's a committee process and

after a couple of meetings you'll get to

go you know do your presentation and

from the BPO marketing that's cool just

to make sure you have a pretty good idea

of how that's gonna work before you

decide to invest too much time in that

project because if you don't if you

don't know who but who the real buyer is

and guarantee if somebody else does and

you're kind of doomed from the start if

you don't have that information

neat do they need what you sell just

because they called you doesn't mean

they need a shiny new Drupal website but

I got a call last year at Pro matte it

was literally Joe's garage like

somewhere in I think South Carolina that

somebody had built them a perfectly nice

six page Drupal seven site seven eight

years ago look nice you know phone

number here's what I do a couple of

pictures of the shop and the freelancer

had vanished and he direct read some

stories about you know touple geddens

and things and was worried and wanted to

upgrade you to a plate that's in that

night let me give you the name we were

afraid you guys were you know WordPress

sites or maybe Squarespace that's what

you want you don't want to be late to

make sure they need what you're buying

to you don't

I'm telling guys I told him Italy don't

assume you can outsmart them don't

figure it out eventually even big

companies if they're like talking about

this and you know they don't really

aren't that Drupal eight won't solve the

problem don't put too much time into

selling it joyfully know that you're an

out and then timing just kinda know

again it credibly buying something next

month they trying to get budget numbers

for next year

that's a fine conversation to have with

a big company they're trying to figure

out how much this upgrades gonna cost

them in 2020 a second budget for just

know that you're not planning on closing

that deal in April and it's really going

to be twelve months from now my

experience is the technical and creative

founders are not so good at this process

they tend to believe they can help

everybody which probably is something to

do with you know what it takes to start

a company in the first place and I

suspect a little bit of maybe PSTD from

a days when I 500 all their website

actually would buy groceries for two

weeks then yeah and they just haven't

ever kind of lost that that way of

thinking so you kind of just have to

make yourself sometimes think through

this stuff and make sure that you're

really doing it the right way so

prospects someone's raise their hand you

being qualified them it's legit the new

Drupal a fight they had a hundred fifty

thousand dollars they want launched

before Christmas what do you do now

that's literally an entire another

presentation and that's actually

probably two days of training if I

wanted to really do it that way but I'll

fit with your hands out there are

thousands and thousands of sales books

on Amazon

they all say the same thing for the most

part next time I've got a few

recommendations of decent ones - if you

want to read up on it technical credit

founder Julie European this part I take

once you're in front of a customer with

money budget and a problem to solve

generally that conversation would go

well without a lot of you know training

up again I think if you start a company

start have some that naturally um

remember you're almost never selling

Drupal my experience either the big

company or government have already

decided you know Drupal's their platform

well they really don't care Drupal

WordPress is it going to work how do I

support it you know is the community out

there they really don't care in the end

which what the platform is so don't get

caught up and like you know selling

through a point you're not so in duple

you're selling more revenue you're

selling better customer service you're

selling you know whatever the business

case is behind the website yet really

some technology you may never get a

second meeting so you know don't leave

anything behind you'll go forward with

dust-up on our meeting and I rather our

skills book once were the advertising

guy that said live music always beats

PowerPoint um I have not yet walked into

a sales pitch with my ukulele

but it's going to happen someday on some

silly I don't really need probably

here's a few sales books another win

friends and influence people Dale

Carnegie from the 40s

honestly everything under it is kind of

rehashing what he he said spin selling

came out in the 80s it's kind of based

on the questions you ask kind of lead to

the outcome it's a little dated now with

the internet because you don't have to

ask questions like what's your business

do stories but you know that when you

come in challenger sale was like early

you can change the customers mind you've

won so you sit down with somebody who

thinks they need a WordPress website and

you really convince them they need

Drupal you're basically 80% to the win

because you change their mind so they're

not going to take anybody else seriously

they like you and they're going to

snap selling was like the first of these

in sales book that came out in the age

of anyone's got 500 emails in their

inbox a voicemail box that were checked

in 3 days and 17 meetings before 5

o'clock how do you get that person's

attention because they're busy and it's

a subtle human was like the came out two

years ago by Daniel pink which kind of

takes on the idea that selling is

actually sort of a native human thing we

all do and we're all actually pretty

good at it

we just sort of get out of runway Silk

Road number three always reference

Glengarry Glen Ross which is actually

kind of a dark and depressing movie I'm

not sure why all my fellow sales people

think us so awesome I'm not that big of

a deal so what are a piece anybody here

like do the rfp gang where you

constantly respond are at peace I do

I've sold millions of Drupal sites doing

the dollar country presides over the

last four or five years the RFP most

people think I'm not on the plus side

yes

are you saying you look at thousands of

RFPs or you respond

you were spotted nine or something oh no

that's the key yeah be real to choosing

what you respond to but I I look at I

look at them all I'll skim them but you

got to be real choosy which one you're

gonna invest 8 to 16 hours into writing

a pretty major puzzle for so on the plus

side they almost always tell you how

they're gonna make a decision they're

telling you they need a website and they

generally will tell you the timing it's

usually unreasonable let's see I'll tell

it to you the only thing you're missing

often is the budget which you can ask

about sometimes they'll tell you but

usually you're you know you kind of fly

in the line on this you have to sort of

read between the lines to figure out if

this you know University of whatever or

this government agency really has the

money it's gonna take to take their you

know circa 2012 thirty thousand page

website and put it into your plate

private sector rfp's wouldn't even think

about it unless you help write the RFP

for say FedEx you're not winning it

it's private sector that's totally an

exercise in pretending we tried hard to

find a minority for him to do this or

pretending that it was an open

competition when really it's going to

the director of technologies

brother-in-law all along so I don't even

think about those when they show up in

the inbox government RFPs

does not see a lot of that going on to

but they tend to be more open um

but you just have to really qualify them

for all of its their relevance I mean

put yourself in the buyers shoes and

think what I really hire my firm for

this project if they're asking for

Drupal that's a pretty good that's a

good go right there um if it's a

university and asking for Drupal and

you've built 32 websites for

universities in Drupal 8 you know it's

almost an automatic at that point you're

gonna reply and less and then the

budgets not gonna work out or something

to find out is too low and everything in

between it becomes kind of a judgment

call you know do I have five clients

that look like this yes maybe I don't

what I've built something for somebody

else which is almost identical I won I

won one that way in a higher at higher

ed last year the website I showed them

was in higher ed but it literally

functionality-wise with everything

they're asking for like look at we

literally launched site you're asking

for two months ago we won that job so

it's all about India be honest

again I think technical I think founders

a small webshop sometimes because they

believe they can do it all have a hard

time looking at these things I'm saying

yeah yes you can do it you know yes

promet source could build a website for

almost something we've never done a

foreign government right but why would

they hire us we've never done right so

good to be honest with yourself about

why why would they really hire me for

this project because oftentimes they

probably really won't and again said I

don't eight to 16 hours on every RFP

on average so you've got to be really

cheesy because you could blow your year

writing publishing ever yeah that's a

good question um I mean I kind of think

I probably skim on average four to four

to six a day and by skill I'm you know

you know scan it I scan it real quick I

got transferred to for the word Drupal

switcher for the word budget a few

things like that see if I will quickly

determine if it's if it's legit if it's

not then I have to read what they're

asking for a little closer and again

it's a lot of times what I do is I put

it in the maybe pile and I send in some

questions

what's the budget and once you guys

spend on on website maintenance last

year you know and try to try to figure

out what they really want and you'll get

you know you might get straight answer

sometimes I hear the budgets pretty down

dollars well then you know you want to

chase that project or not for that much

um sometimes what they don't tell you is

if you get if you send in twenty

questions on spit kind of government RFP

and you get back twenty one line answers

that you can tell someone did in five

minutes what they're telling you is we

already know who won in this project we

just need to document it so at that

point I generally know that

these are keys to single freelancers to

see a little more substantial

organization I mean the federal

government absolutely but I think like

state and local I'm not sure they care a

lot of times there's Jim as long as

you're especially if you know like my

chance you're a veteran owned business

or one of the set-aside groups that

they're always trying to find ways to

get you know to get money to I'm not

sure they care no if they do easy to

tell you Julie in the requirement if it

matters it'll be in there but normally

federal government cares yeah they'd you

only want to see you know three years in

business you know some big websites that

look like or my websites even if they're

not government but like oh you know the

small talent hiring somebody honestly

bingo but one person freelancer in that

small towns got me an advantage

did you bring no people to do an iron

for one thing yes I I look at four to

six a day and I write four hundred holes

a month there you go um there's a bunch

of websites and I paid services out

there that essentially have one crawlers

they hit all the government RFP sites

and consolidate them and categorize them

into web development and you know ERP

implementations and lawn services and

then a bunch of other things the one I

use is RFP mark calm yeah it's it's

honestly it's it's cheap and I've

compared it to some of the expensive

ones and rpm art has 95% of the same

RFPs

it's 50 bucks a month and they just in

every day I just you know going around

meeting usually lunch Ireland look at

when we were a PA found

I'm pretty sure if like two guys in

India doing it but they do a great job

so I got no complaints and honestly my

goal is to not you alright peace if I

can if we could get to a point where

there's enough people calling pro mass

you know big companies that have big

budgets say hey we want to talk to you

guys I didn't have time to look at our

piece I'd be really happy say look you

know they are there are a lot of work

and there's an you know you do it can

throw a lot of them and you don't win so

if I could get to a point where I'm

dealing with big companies that are

calling us more often but that's you

know that's a long road to get there it

takes a lot of marketing dollars and you

know even a 40-person Drupal shop like

pro Mac doesn't have the kind of money

done do that kind of work so um so one

last thing 5mr questions what do want to

hire someone like me what you think

about we're gonna cheap of course I

would say that right I think there's

kind of two approaches you can hire

somebody experienced maybe they've been

a peon one time you've been at dev at

one time you know that can sort of do

almost all of it without a lot of help

or you can hire a 24 year old in a

second job out of college and say here's

you know the thousand people I've talked

to you at Drupal camp a Drupal con in

the last year

call them all you know see if we can

stir up some business and then you may

come in as the technical guy technical

person and sort of take it from there

when they get somebody on the hook

because they don't really know what to

do with it both both route through legit

just how you wanna do it the comp plan

can't be executed explained in one slide

it's too complicated I mean we're still

people were simple you know tell us the

base salary tell us the commission

percentage and we're good and I don't

want to see you know nine PowerPoint

slides of overrides and percentages and

well it was if it's if it's a Drupal

site you get VIPRE sitting there with a

WordPress site you only get three nobody

wants to track that just keep it simple

Oh plan ahead we all know what Silla

cycles are like for website projects

trying to figure out how you're gonna

make you know payroll in April it's too

late to hire sales

help you they're not gonna make a

difference you know picture you can pay

that person four threes no more than six

months before they start you know paying

for themselves basically and I went back

and looked at my last few web sales jobs

and took you know added up base salary

commission whatever bone or some way I

got you know 401k contributions health

insurance contributions basically by

total comp and pretty much ones thirteen

twenty percent at whatever I may do so

if I'm going to sell a million dollars

of Drupal sites for young we expect to

make between one thirty inch winter game

all in the very that's being how at risk

it is mommy work for a lower base and I

want a higher upside you know I'm cop

say mister milord right you're gonna

give me a $100,000 base salary you know

I'm probably okay with a much lower

percentage on the Commission because you

pay me on that upfront

so thank you very much next day of my

feedback and the contribution slide by

the way I actually hit that with some

ways to get back digital community not

being powdered so if you would not

something you want to talk about catch

me afterwards or the happy hour some

I've actually been thinking that might

be minutes presentation is how to how to

get back without right yes

contracts establish ones in progress do

you still have any more involvement good

question I may repeat that for that

recording how important how involved are

you in sales once the contract signed it

is very based on how the company wants

to run it in a previous Drupal agency I

signed the contract I never talked to

the client again handed it off to a

project management in an internal

meeting and I was doing and then I got

paid for anything they bought for the

first twelve months and then it was

house money at that point basically

where I am now once I sell out there my

customer so I'm involved I'm not sitting

in every stand up obviously cuz I don't

have that kind of time but I'm checking

in with the project managers every

couple of weeks hey what's going on I

didn't know about gonna help you know

the P in the front of managers that will

pay me in and say hey you know they've

got this other projects done enough they

need to talk to you about it and don't

jump back yet

so then managing that line between

project management of sales it's

probably another presentation yes

who am i bringing into the in-person

sales meetings that's a good question um

it depends it's either generally either

going to be somewhat technical if you

like we're trying if we need to have

that kind of conversation or if it's

more of a front-end marketing design

type of project or bringing the creative

director sometimes both but it's really

it varies every presentation just based

on sort of what we're really talking

about I mean clients do want to meet the

people are gonna work with I mean to you

to the we're to that point there's the

salesperson I kind of don't matter the

client they don't they don't care about

me they want to meet the project manager

if they're gonna work with for the next

six months I wanted me to know the

architect is going to build their site

so I try to get as much of that team

involved but obviously then you're

taking people off available projects for

a meeting and it becomes complicated so

it's basically whoever I can get it yes

is a Drupal event a good place to find

Drupal customers Drupal con yes but a

lot of businesses there drupal camps

your competitors I'm not really I do

these for fun this is kind of marketing

for program right just kind of keep our

name out there I'm not expecting to like

get a sixth of your website project out

of a Drupal camera I mean I might happen

I mean you might you know there are some

of the bigger camps or just maybe it's

just culture above but it's some camps

where there's more business people you

know where there's more customer types

and then I was in Atlanta where it was

literally just Turner and a bunch of

Drupal shops

yes in what are your first slides where

you were showing the chart you know what

percentages yeah were you suggesting

based on your percentages like a Heuer

your goal was 500 K was your example

right that you should start should

target 5 million dollars for the

potential business to reach their goals

that kind

yeah yeah yeah we bent the pipeline in

the theory I give every projects worth

$50,000 and you need a hundred prospects

to end up with 10 customers well hundred

tongues 50,000 is five giving you know

five million dollars of potential

business no reality in the real world

obviously some of those projects are

gonna be with 250 you know and it might

not actually be the numbers are gonna be

different and then as soon as you start

being successful you won't have time to

do all that stuff because you'll be busy

you know you might spend entire day

getting your PowerPoint presentation for

a big final meeting ready then you gotta

fly across the country for that meetings

there's a day um so it's that clotting

did just like with developers you know

if you're one man a freelancer and you

working on a project you don't kind of

find the next one when you're in sales

if you're busy trying to close few big

projects you're generally not like kind

of planning funny and you see that sign

of affect you can just bring your

question maybe it will be Steve on

presentations you win one you lose three

my face I haven't looked in RFP in two

weeks

[Laughter]

actually my question Sally was kind of

intended

okay yeah um anywhere you can find

people that you can help alright so I

mean again if you're if you're

specializing in higher ed websites then

there's by some kind of higher ed tech

conference um you know the National

Association of government webmasters has

a bigger than every year so if you're

into government websites

that's a target-rich environment cuz

everybody there is managing some kind of

decent-sized web infrastructure you know

if you do like you know big brand

website you're probably going to the

American Marketing Association events

both the annual conference and just all

like the local meetups they tend to do

yeah but it's basically anywhere there's

enough people congregating but you want

to talk to that's worth the effort to go

which could be five people at Denny's on

a Friday morning for chamber commerce or

it could be you know a 10,000 person

trade show in Vegas - okay I think we're

at time